Stephen de Groot is a Data Analyst in our Brisbane office, working on various geospatial projects. Like many neurodivergent Australians, his career has taken many twists and turns. Find out more about how he ended up with Australian Spatial Analytics below.
Stephen de Groot: I was born in Tamworth, New South Wales, in 1987. This was back when autism wasn't very well known or understood. I was diagnosed autistic as a child, but my parents went down the old route of not telling me. I knew I was different during school but didn't know why. I just thought maybe I was a bit shy and introverted. I tend to chalk it down to my parents receiving lousy advice. No one knew much about the condition then, so their advice was not to tell me and try to make me socialise with others. It was pretty bad advice, in hindsight.
Primary school started terribly. I didn't interact with the other kids. I was ‘alone with a rubber bone’ most of the time. That sounds funny now, but it wasn't at the time! I eventually made some friends, which was great. But when I moved to Brisbane for high school when I was 13, I didn’t take it well, having to leave my old friends behind because I found it hard to make them back then. I started Grade 8 not knowing how to interact properly with other kids. High schoolers are very different from primary school kids. It’s like your emotional age tends to drop down! But I eventually got there and formed a friendship group.
“My parents tried many things to get me interested in something, like signing me up for a soccer team when I didn’t want to. When I did join, there was one time when I just got so bored that I said I wasn’t playing anymore. They also tried to get me into the Boy Scouts, which didn't work out. Eventually, I received a hand-me-down computer from Dad's work, and technology became my big interest.”
As a teenager, I liked playing MS-DOS games (remember that?) and tinkering with computer hardware. As I grew older, I moved to software because it was cheaper, and I thought at the time there would be more money in it for a career. I also liked drawing as a creative outlet, which I’d like to get back into. I didn’t care how accurate my drawings were; I’d scribble between the margins of a maths book.
I reached Grade 12 and graduated. You know how, during high school, kids start thinking about what they want to do after leaving and their future? For some odd reason, I never actually thought about that at all. I thought I was going to be a teenager forever! I had no idea. But immediately after school, one of my father's friends, a manager at a cleaning company, gave me some work. I was sort of okay with that because I was getting paid. I did that for about six years off and on. That’s considered very long for a cleaner because they fire people at the drop of a hat! But it took its toll. I had a massive emotional breakdown, mainly because of the demands of cleaning and being bullied by managers and customers. I went to a mental health facility and obtained my medical history from my mother. They only disclosed I had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) when I was there.
“So after the cleaning stint, I tried university. It was then I discovered, in my early twenties, that I was autistic. I needed to request a medical history so I could find OCD-friendly accommodation on campus, and I read through the printout. The first thing I saw was ‘OCD on top of secondary Autism Spectrum Disorder’, and I went, what? That's how I found out, walking away in shock and holding the paper. I had some awkward conversations with my parents about it.”
When I asked them if I had autism, they said no, it's just a learning disorder you had as a kid. Then I showed them the piece of paper, and they finally admitted it. At first, I went through the stages of grief. First, it was like, no, that can't be right. There's gotta be a mistake. Then I thought, well, maybe I have it, but it's only mild, so it's not really an issue. After that, I thought, this changes my future. In the end, I was all good. I have it. I've made it this far without knowing and can make it throughout my life.
I eventually graduated with a Bachelor of Information Technology (IT). Unfortunately, it wasn’t of any use to me. I was doing an IT diploma, and a group from a university came in and did a presentation claiming that anyone who undertook their IT degree was guaranteed a job. It turned out to be a dud. I did land a position, but it only lasted about six months, and the work was pretty average. I then worked as a JavaScript and PHP developer, creating web pages. However, I lost that position due to a company cutback and had trouble finding work afterwards.
I then worked some pretty lousy jobs to make ends meet, such as washing cars and cleaning again. I registered with a Disability Employment Service (DES) provider, and one day, they told me about ASA. I didn't know the company existed until maybe a day before the interview! I was pleasantly surprised when the interview process catered to my needs.
“Previously, I faced obstacles at the interview stage because I have both autism and OCD, which makes remembering interview questions incredibly hard. This caused me a lot of anxiety. Frequent feedback I would receive was that interviewers had no problems with my answers, but I didn't seem very confident because I was looking down and muttering. You can tell when an interview is going badly when they loudly sigh!”
With ASA, I had the questions in advance and was allowed to bring my written answers in. Actually, I made a mistake and thought it was a general questionnaire! I typed up the answers and sent them back to the DES provider, to be told, Stephen, they are the interview questions! I found having advanced warnings of the questions indefinitely reduced my anxiety. They were all straightforward, with no trick questions or ambiguous statements, like in many interviews (you know, what is your greatest weakness…). I knew what to say in my head, so my answers in the interview came out naturally. They asked me if I had used geospatial programs before. I mentioned I had looked it up before coming in and said Google Maps!
I’ve been here just over two years since that interview. On my first day, I was at ease because I buddied up with someone who had been here a while. I’ve been primarily working on geospatial projects, mainly on creating a ‘single source of truth’ for Queensland’s electricity assets. I’ve done bits and pieces on other projects, including emergency management data for Australia’s largest council by population. Although I had no previous experience in geospatial work, my on-the-job training developed my interest in it. I want to develop my skills further here and eventually become a data scientist. I would have no idea what I’d be doing now if I had never encountered ASA. I’d be either still cleaning, doing manual labour or unemployed even though I have a university degree!
I like so much about working here. I get that ASA’s mission is to train people and transition them out to other inclusive employers. But I’ve never experienced the amazing culture that ASA has anywhere else. That's the best part about it. If I make a mistake, it's not a tragedy. There's no screaming, shouting, or anything like that, which was common in past jobs. I'm not going to get fired. I just go back and fix it! The people who work here are amazing.
I don’t have sensory issues, but my accommodations were looked after before I started. I knew I was coming to a safe work environment. I know what's going to happen when I walk in the door. I have consistent and predictable work, none of this last-minute stuff. I work here full-time after starting as a casual working three days a week. When I was offered full-time work, I jumped at the opportunity. The one thing I love about ASA is that they assume I’m competent. I also like the social events, especially the end-of-year celebrations. We need to do more!
In terms of our strengths, if you put a neurodivergent person in the right environment, and they know they’re supported, and they know the people around them are friends and care, they will absolutely move the world for you. The managers have helped me with day-to-day tips and how to be the best I can be at work. The People Success Officer team are fantastic; I wonder why other organisations don't have one! They have helped me plan my goals. Like what I want to do next, what to expect from other employers, and what I need to do to get there. The support is always there. Because I have a stable income, I can now plan for the future. I don’t have to worry about Centrelink payments being cut off.
“This dawned on me recently. There was a very strong possibility that I could be homeless, living in a tent right now, if I didn’t have stable employment with ASA. The lease for our old place expired late last year, and if I were unemployed, with my mother only working an average of three days a week, four hours a day for various reasons, it would have been highly unlikely we would have secured housing.”
Before I started at ASA, I knew a bit about many things, but not enough to become a professional. If you look at my resume, it’s very patchy, with many short stints of work and long stretches of unemployment. Now, I feel like I'm experienced in something high in demand, and I have a good chance at having a meaningful career. I am definitely interested in working at other organisations and different environments. I know I’ll never find what I have here, but I’m interested in working at a large company or government department.
With communication styles, I find face-to-face can cause some anxiety, but I’m getting better at it. I don't have that kind of anxiety with written communication. The Teams support channels are great here. People say I come across as confident, but it took me a while to get there. There are two types of autistic people regarding eye contact: people who avoid eye contact at all costs and those who stare you down, which is me! I have to remember to look away occasionally! I have had interesting stories where neurotypical people have misunderstood my expressions. There was one time when I was walking along the street, and I gave this guy what I thought was a friendly smile, which is what I do with everyone. He obviously misinterpreted this when I noticed he looked frightened and said, do you want to fight me? I said no, just trying to be friendly! Some neurotypical people have misconceptions about neurodivergent people, like them being extremely needy or having no empathy. Or they view people as objects that can be discarded at any moment.
In the past, especially at school, I felt like I had to be someone I wasn’t. I had to make myself ‘more extroverted’, if that makes sense. I don’t have to do that ASA. I can be me. Everyone is accepting of other people's differences. There is someone here who looks at your knees when you talk to them. That’s just the way he communicates. Other workplaces can learn from ASA by just listening to neurodivergent people and taking them seriously. And be accepting of mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. When you start to point fingers or start blaming, that’s when neurodivergent people shut down. With other employers, it’s been like people sure don't like to help out, but they love assigning blame.
Before I came to ASA, I was incredibly jaded toward other workers, workplaces, and employers. That’s all changed. I recently joined an autism support group and mentioned where I work and what we do. A few of the group members sent me their resume! I know ASA and their work on making neurodiversity in the workplace mainstream is a drop in the ocean, but the smallest drop is better than none at all because we can make a ripple that can reach everyone.